Inside the Mind of a Jiu Jitsu Innovator: Josh McKinney
The principal theme of this podcast episode centers around the journey of personal and professional growth through the lens of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, as articulated by our esteemed guest, Josh McKinney. Throughout our discourse, we delve into the transformative experiences that shape individuals into effective leaders and mentors within their communities. We emphasize the necessity of introspection and continuous learning as foundational elements for overcoming stagnation and complacency. Josh shares insights from his own evolution as a competitor and a coach, illuminating the challenges faced and the strategies employed in nurturing a thriving Jiu Jitsu academy. This episode serves as an inspiration for those who aspire to elevate their lives, urging them to embrace the arduous yet rewarding path of self-improvement and community building.
Humans That Build
Episode 001 — Danelle Delgado: Who Loses If You Don’t Win?
Real people. Real work. Real conversations.
Welcome to the very first episode of Humans That Build—a show about what has to be built inside a person before anything meaningful can be built in the world.
No hype.
No shortcuts.
Just humans doing the work.
In this inaugural episode, host Adam Marburger sits down with entrepreneur and mentor Danelle Delgado for a raw, grounded conversation about survival, mentorship, discipline, faith, and the internal work that turns struggle into momentum.
Danelle shares the moments most success stories leave out: starting over with nothing, raising three small children while rebuilding her life, learning to ask for help when ego stood in the way, and discovering the systems and people that made sustainable growth possible.
Key themes include:
- Where survival mode really begins
- Why mentorship accelerates growth
- How daily discipline creates momentum
- A million-dollar breakthrough without a team or systems
- Why service is often the fastest way out of setbacks
If you are building something and feel stuck, behind, or uncertain, this episode meets you where you are.
Quote from the episode:
“Who loses if you don’t win? When you know the answer to that question, you wake up differently.”
Humans That Build is about character, decisions, and the internal foundations required to build something meaningful in the world.
Subscribe and stay tuned. This is only the beginning.
In this enlightening episode, Adam Marburger engages in a profound dialogue with Josh McKinney, exploring the symbiotic relationship between personal development and professional success. Their conversation serves as a reflective lens on the trials and triumphs that define the journey of building a business within the context of Jiu Jitsu. Josh articulates the pivotal moments that catalyzed his growth, drawing upon his experiences as both a competitor and a coach. The discussion foregrounds the significance of self-awareness and ongoing learning as essential components of sustained success. As they navigate through various topics, including the challenges of maintaining motivation amidst setbacks and the importance of fostering a supportive community, listeners are invited to consider their own aspirations and the steps necessary to realize them. Adam and Josh's camaraderie is palpable, and their insights resonate deeply, providing a roadmap for those who may feel adrift in their pursuits. In conclusion, the episode not only celebrates individual accomplishments but also emphasizes the collective journey of growth within the martial arts community, inspiring listeners to engage authentically with their passions and the people who share them.
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of cultivating personal growth to achieve success, as individuals must first build themselves internally before they can create tangible results externally.
- Listeners are encouraged to understand their unique learning styles, which is vital for personal development and overcoming challenges in both life and Jiu Jitsu.
- The conversation highlights the significance of maintaining a consistent training rhythm, as falling out of practice often leads to discouragement and eventual quitting.
- The speakers discuss the transformative power of Jiu Jitsu, noting that it not only improves physical fitness but also fosters a supportive community that can redefine one's social circle.
- A recurring theme in the episode is the necessity of self-awareness, where individuals must recognize their strengths and weaknesses to navigate their personal journeys effectively.
- The hosts aim to inspire listeners to embark on their journeys by sharing their own experiences, demonstrating that anyone can achieve their dreams if they commit to the process.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- head nod HQ
- Head Nod Squad
- Hit Squad
- St. Louis Jiu Jitsu
- I Suck at Jiu Jitsu
Transcript
This is Adam Marburger.
Speaker A:And this is humans that build real conversations with real people.
Speaker A:Not just about what they've built in the world, but what had to be built inside them first.
Speaker A:No hype, no shortcuts.
Speaker A:Just humans doing the work.
Speaker A:Humans that build.
Speaker A:Real people.
Speaker A:Real work.
Speaker A:What's up, everybody?
Speaker A:Welcome to Humans that Build.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Adam Marburger.
Speaker A:This show is designed to help people become better versions of themselves today than they were yesterday for a more hopeful tomorrow.
Speaker A:So today I got an incredible guest.
Speaker A:I've got a gentleman I've had the honor and privilege to know for a really long time.
Speaker A:He's a guy that, quite honestly, if he wants your bike, he could probably take your bike from you.
Speaker A:So you got to be real careful with this guy.
Speaker A:But it's an honor and a privilege to have Josh McKinney, the host of I Suck at Jiu Jitsu and the founder of head nod HQ, Josh McKinney.
Speaker A:Welcome to Humans that Build.
Speaker A:My brother.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me on, Adam.
Speaker B:It was interesting that today we're doing this interview.
Speaker B:I got a 10 years ago throwback to you and I running a pre order, our second pre order ever for some hoodies for Head Nod Squad, the shirt company that we ran.
Speaker B:And man, the.
Speaker B:The marketing on it was terrible.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The picture was.
Speaker B:It looked like you and I drew the picture in crayon of what the shirts were going to look at, but we were still slinging some shirts at it.
Speaker A:Hey, we were going to get rich selling T shirts.
Speaker B:We were.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I mean, that's what we're going to do.
Speaker A:And then we decided to sponsor every athlete under the sun and it basically drained our savings account.
Speaker A:So then we had to go get real jobs.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It was a good.
Speaker B:It was a good learning experience, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm excited.
Speaker A:So, Josh, obviously, we're dear friends.
Speaker A:You've been a wonderful mentor to me in the jiu jitsu world, and we've done a lot together over the years.
Speaker A:But, you know, I am.
Speaker A:I'm so proud to see the businesses that you've built and the man you've become, the husband that you are, the father that you are, the leader in the community that you are, and you're building things at scale.
Speaker A:So we're going to talk about some of these things you've built, because the idea is to help somebody that hears this, that stuck.
Speaker A:It's to inspire somebody to maybe jump off of the deep end, that they're ready.
Speaker A:They just need to Hear your voice or my voice?
Speaker A:So that's what this is about.
Speaker A:And we're going to get in early.
Speaker A:I'm going to have some fun with you.
Speaker B:All right, let's do it.
Speaker A:I'm going to ask you a couple of short questions and I want short answers and we're going to build upon it.
Speaker A:So I want you.
Speaker B:How short is a short.
Speaker B:How short is a short answer?
Speaker A:Quick one or two?
Speaker A:One or two words?
Speaker A:Okay, maybe, maybe.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:I'll give you a short sentence.
Speaker A:I'll allow you to do short because I like you.
Speaker A:All right, think back.
Speaker A:I want you to go back in time.
Speaker A:I hit the wall when I stop learning.
Speaker A:Now, when you stopped learning, what exposed you to that?
Speaker A:Like, where were you when you were exposed to not learning?
Speaker B:This is a repetitive thing in my life.
Speaker B:This is not just one single moment, but anytime that whatever happens, I get too dialed in on a system that is working great.
Speaker B:And I'm like, nothing could be tweaked.
Speaker B:We figured it out.
Speaker B:Those are the times that in jiu jitsu, I've lost my biggest matches in my business.
Speaker B:My businesses have seen their biggest failures.
Speaker B:But just that process and catching myself.
Speaker B:And it's just, you know, you get so involved in whatever you're doing and working on something and working in something, and then all of a sudden you're not working on yourself at all.
Speaker B:You're not sharpening the saw.
Speaker B:And when I do it, it's just.
Speaker B:It seems like that is when my life is in shambles.
Speaker A:Okay, I love.
Speaker A:That was great.
Speaker A:First thing, thing I changed was
Speaker B:I think you got to rehumble yourself then, right?
Speaker B:A lot of times you stop learning because you get.
Speaker B:You just believe in yourself too much.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And there is like a.
Speaker B:There's a point of diminishing return with self belief.
Speaker B:And for me, I just like those times.
Speaker B:Either I get humbled, like I humble myself, hopefully, or I get humbled, you know, and I have no control over it, that I get humbled.
Speaker B:And either way, the answer is go back to learning.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:So this one is.
Speaker A:I love this.
Speaker A:Now I don't.
Speaker B:Now I don't buy my own bs.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You know, think about it.
Speaker B:So how often are we, when selling something to, you know, whatever a client or our spouse or whatever, we're also selling ourself on it too.
Speaker B:We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point, Josh.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, you, you really, you're probably right about this.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of times we can basically gaslight Ourself.
Speaker B:And I've caught myself doing this where you just.
Speaker B:You believe a certain thing and.
Speaker B:And you go, no, no, no.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker B:I'll build a life around protecting this lie for myself.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I just think being able to.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:There's just being able to.
Speaker B:To see that as quickly as you can, as much as you can, has been huge for me, but it still doesn't change, like, my nature.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So this one here is.
Speaker A:I always.
Speaker B:Honestly, I always.
Speaker B:I always fly the course.
Speaker B:I always.
Speaker B:There's this quote.
Speaker B:It's from a song.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Seasons change, but we say the same.
Speaker B:And that's something that I feel like I have done since I was young.
Speaker B:Young is just stay.
Speaker B:Stay the course that I believed was right.
Speaker B:And no matter what changes, no matter who changes.
Speaker B:You know, I've been.
Speaker B:You've known me for a long time.
Speaker B:I've been flying the same course, you know, and I just think that that's something that I always do.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna.
Speaker A:You know, there's a lot of people out there that they're just kind of stuck.
Speaker A:You know, complacency is a real thing.
Speaker A:I say that average yields average.
Speaker A:It always will yield average.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of people out there that may be in this state of complacency or average, but they do have a dream or an ambition to go to that next level.
Speaker A:All right, so what do you say to that?
Speaker A:Somebody that truly desires, you got to truly want to move to the next level.
Speaker A:But what advice would you give them?
Speaker A:Like, what would you tell somebody that's got.
Speaker A:It's kind of stuck right now.
Speaker A:What would be the first thing you would tell them to do?
Speaker B:I would say the first thing so often it's like, it's not an external thing.
Speaker B:It's not a new website or, you know, something a new podcast to listen to.
Speaker B:A lot of time.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's internal.
Speaker B:You have to.
Speaker B:One for me, like, because learning is so fundamental for me.
Speaker B:I always think, like, you go to.
Speaker B:How does this person learn?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Some people don't, you know, maybe learn the same way that.
Speaker B:Like, that I best learn jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:But my job is, their coach is to figure out how they learn and then say, hey, here are some tasks that you can accomplish that show that you're learning in that method, in that way that you want to learn.
Speaker B:And I think for most people, they really.
Speaker B:You know, I think Drake said it first, but I know for sure.
Speaker B:I've heard Adam Marburger say it more.
Speaker B:It's know yourself, know your worth, and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I, I think that so many people, they just don't.
Speaker B:They don't know themselves.
Speaker B:And so they don't know how they learn.
Speaker B:They don't know when they're being a terrible person.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:Like, there's just no self awareness.
Speaker B:And I think that if you can start to go, hey, I best learned from these podcasts.
Speaker B:I've best learned from this style of learning, from these videos, from these audiobooks.
Speaker B:Because everybody does learn differently.
Speaker B:But really, I used the quote already, but sharpen the saw.
Speaker B:It's habit seven, and the seven habits of highly effective people is you.
Speaker B:You've gotta make sure that you keep yourself sharp.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because no matter what big venture that you have, no matter big goal you aspire for, it's like it's gonna be you becoming something different than you are now.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so, and to me, the.
Speaker B:That process is through learning.
Speaker B:But before that, you should try to learn yourself.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I want to go back in time now, so, you know, let me too, brother.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Do you have a way to do that?
Speaker A:Wait till you turn 45, bro.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So you, you.
Speaker B:You used to tell me that when you were 32, and I turned 32 in a month, bro.
Speaker A:No, I know, but here, here's.
Speaker A:Here's the thing.
Speaker A:That's fact.
Speaker A:I'm going to get off topic here for a minute.
Speaker A:I believe this to be fact.
Speaker A:Your body's factory warranty expires at age 40.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Now, you can elect to get on TRT or get on certain supplementation or do certain things that you can then purchase an extended service agreement for your body.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I hear that that sometimes cost you
Speaker A:in the long run.
Speaker A:That's what I hear, too.
Speaker B:That's what I've heard.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Okay, let's set aside.
Speaker A:Let's set aside the business side for a minute.
Speaker A:Business.
Speaker A:Talk about Jiu Jitsu, Josh.
Speaker A:You know, you've got a really cool scenario as you and your dad are fellow black belts, right?
Speaker A:Your father, to me, is my mentor.
Speaker A:I look up to your dad more than anybody in the world.
Speaker A:How awesome was it having that to look up to growing up?
Speaker A:And B, did he talk you into Jiu Jitsu or did you want to do it on your own?
Speaker A:I would like to know that, man.
Speaker B:Well, first off, it was.
Speaker B:It was not only was it awesome.
Speaker B:But it has been cooler as I've grown up, as I've gotten to see so many people who didn't have a good dad and then see how their life goes.
Speaker B:And I'm like, man, that's just so important.
Speaker B:It's just like, you know, for me, it changes my perspective of being a dad.
Speaker B:You know, it's like, man, this is obviously an incredibly important thing, but no, it was not my dad who told me made me do Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:He's one of the most easygoing people in the world.
Speaker B:You've met my mom though.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's who made me do Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:There was no choice in, in the matter and I was really just going because my mom was like, hey, you're fat, you're doing something.
Speaker B:This gym just opened up and yeah, she made me go.
Speaker B:I went to the first class, I met Kyle and literally from there I was like, ah, this is what I'm
Speaker A:going to do though.
Speaker A:I mean, you didn't.
Speaker A:First of all, let's not just talk about this gym.
Speaker A:What kind of a gym was this?
Speaker B:It was, it was so.
Speaker B:Okay, so one, it was.
Speaker B:I grew up in the hood, you know, used to train Jiu Jitsu in my garage.
Speaker A:I loved.
Speaker B:It wasn't a, you know, wasn't the nicest area.
Speaker B:And five minutes away from us, someone decided to build a just insanely big, I forget how big, like 50,000 square foot facility for MMA.
Speaker B:There was also incredible strength and conditioning.
Speaker B:There was just the top of the line equipment.
Speaker B:And then they brought in some of the best coaches in the world to teach in Granite City.
Speaker B:It was called the Hit Squad.
Speaker B:And for about three years it had a heyday that is still chatted about amongst MMA communities to this day.
Speaker B:Yes, it was, it produced guys that are still in the UFC.
Speaker B: I mean, this was in: Speaker B:And it was just this incredible place.
Speaker B:And for me, it, for a any building, it was the most life changing place that I've ever been to.
Speaker B:I went in, I met Kyle Watson, he's been my Jiu Jitsu coach.
Speaker B:And like you said, with my dad, one of my mentors for the last 18 years and 17 years and he, yeah, it's just, it was just I the perfect person at the perfect time.
Speaker B:And then that really, you know, introduced me to Jiu jitsu and introduced me to loving Jiu jitsu, you know, and seeing like there, there are more benefits than just the, the simple surface level ones.
Speaker B:And yeah, I've been.
Speaker B:I've been cooking ever since, bro.
Speaker A:It's been fun, I'll tell you right now.
Speaker A:And I. I'm glad to talk a little jiu jitsu, because I look back at my career and I posted something about this the other day.
Speaker A:Like, I was brought into martial arts by just getting beat up.
Speaker A:Like, we would go to pro gym and spar.
Speaker A:I'm like a day three guys, like, what am I doing here?
Speaker A:I don't even know what I'm doing.
Speaker A:And then our boy Derek McGuire goes, you need to meet Josh.
Speaker A:You need to meet Steve.
Speaker A:And then Kyle, I did private lessons, one or two in your garage.
Speaker A:And then I signed up with Kyle when he moved to Forest Park Avenue.
Speaker A:I was a day one student.
Speaker A:But one thing I loved about putting the gi on and going over to Kyle, not saying I had bad coaches in the past, I had a lot of great coaches.
Speaker A:They taught me a lot, but I didn't have that level of structure.
Speaker A:And the way Kyle spoke and taught technique, like, I was learning very quickly going to Kyle.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, all you guys just meet some of the greatest people, man.
Speaker A:We, you know, getting to travel and compete, those are probably some of the best years of my life.
Speaker B:Yeah, dude, I agree.
Speaker B:And I think that so many guys that I talk to say that same thing.
Speaker B:Like, man, just getting to do that was just.
Speaker B:It was just the most fun thing.
Speaker B:And there's this weird thing in life where you don't realize the best times of your life until they're over.
Speaker B:And you, you know, and so it's like, I love that, you know, I love one.
Speaker B:Just getting to be a part of that for a lot of people, because I've continued to do jiu jitsu, you know, and continue to get to get that experience, but it is a super cool experience, the journey.
Speaker A:You know, it's funny, too, because I think.
Speaker A:I don't know what this was like for you because you were beating black belts at blue belt.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But like, for me, when you're a white belt, you're winning all this stuff.
Speaker A:You're like, you don't want to be a white belt, right?
Speaker A:Then you're a blue belt.
Speaker A:Then you're a blue belt for, like, I don't want to be a blue belt forever.
Speaker A:Now you want to be a purple belt.
Speaker A:Then you start scratching your head like, am I doing.
Speaker A:I deserve a brown belt?
Speaker A:Then you get to brown belt.
Speaker A:And for me, it was like, I wasn't in a rush to get A black belt.
Speaker A:I was kind of like, do I deserve it?
Speaker A:Because then once it's here, it's kind of like.
Speaker A:But a lot of people along the way, Josh, they quit.
Speaker A:Why do people quit?
Speaker A:I mean, and another thing, too, I understand a lot of people quit maybe at white belt because it is hard.
Speaker A:But, like, once you get past white belt and you get a blue belt or even purple, quitting after purple is crazy to me.
Speaker A:But why do people quit at blue belt, purple belt?
Speaker A:What is the reasoning?
Speaker B:I think that there's two big ones.
Speaker B:Obviously there's, you know, different.
Speaker B:Different reasons people might do it.
Speaker B:But I really think that the first one is that once you fall out of rhythm of training, it is so.
Speaker B:Or just doing anything healthy, it's so hard to get back into it.
Speaker B:And then you wait a month and you go, oh, I'm a little behind.
Speaker B:And then you wait six months, you go, I'll never catch up.
Speaker B:And then you just, like, fully quit.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And I think for a lot of people, they get a little injury or just life gets really busy, the holidays come around, and then they just fall out of that rhythm, and it's so hard to get the ball rolling again.
Speaker B:But then the other reason for most people, in my opinion, is that I just don't think that most people notice that they're getting better or even that they're getting better so incrementally that they, you know, it doesn't seem like they're getting better at all.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so, and I think that that's discouraging for people is if you put in effort, you want to get something out of it, you want result.
Speaker B:And so often I see guys like.
Speaker B:Because that's.
Speaker B:Like you said, purple belt, you know, those guys have been training for, like, five or six years.
Speaker B:There are people that train five or six years and can beat some of the best people in the world.
Speaker B:So that already starts to become discouraging, right?
Speaker B:We're like, wait, I get beat by guys that have only been training for six months, that are just pretty athletic, and they're.
Speaker B:They start to get discouraged in that manner.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, I think there's a lot of deep philosophical jiu jitsu reasons that cause that to happen.
Speaker B:But to me, I just think that those are the two reasons that people tend to quit, is that they fall out of rhythm or they just.
Speaker B:They aren't seeing enough progression in themselves, and they just get discouraged, and they're like, it's just not worth getting beat down all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's transition into you opening your gym, you know, And I'll say, I remember.
Speaker A:I remember going back and what I love about our affiliation, you know, tag team and being under Kyle, we got some.
Speaker A:We just have some incredible affiliates, like St. Louis Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:Stacked.
Speaker A:It's just stacked.
Speaker A:There's no other way to put it.
Speaker A:But what I love about our affiliation is, like, we all cross train.
Speaker A:We're all welcoming each other.
Speaker A:We're all opening the doors.
Speaker A:And I remember back in the day, before it was taboo.
Speaker A:I remember, you know, Sundays after church, you said, hey, you know what?
Speaker A:You're everybody's welcome.
Speaker A:Then all of a sudden, everybody's kind of coming out and cross training at your first location, right?
Speaker A:And then now you've got how many?
Speaker A:You've got three.
Speaker A:Three.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're in Granite City, Edwardsville and Jerseyville.
Speaker A:So walk us through that.
Speaker A:I mean, was that the plan ever?
Speaker A:Did it organically happen?
Speaker A:Just kind of walk us through the head nod.
Speaker A:Original now to multiple locations.
Speaker A:You're running a very successful business.
Speaker B:Business now, man.
Speaker B:Who knows, Adam?
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It was just.
Speaker B:You were there.
Speaker B:When I started my first school, it was really.
Speaker B:For me, I was a jiu jitsu competitor, and I was like, I know eventually I will have a jiu jitsu school anyway, and why not play the long game and start now, right?
Speaker B:And that was really.
Speaker B:That was how deep the thought went.
Speaker B:And then from there, it was like, okay, well, I guess now I really need to dial in and learn how to be a good coach.
Speaker B:I guess I need to, you know, learn how to run a jiu jitsu business.
Speaker B:And so for me, I was pretty behind after the decision because in looking back, I don't regret it at all, because so many guys that I run into now that are.
Speaker B:That were I was competing against at that time are like, man, I'm starting a jiu jitsu school now.
Speaker B:You know, 10, 11 years later.
Speaker B:And they're like, I wish I would have started one then.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yeah, probably looking back, it probably would have been better on the business side to do that, right?
Speaker B:And so then with adding multiple locations, what happens is there's this weird thing in jiu jitsu where so many coaches and students have these, like, after black belt, have these, like, big disagreements and kind of these breakups, right?
Speaker B:And you see that happen all the time.
Speaker B:And usually it's over, like, awkwardness of leaving, because if somebody wants to, they've dedicated their life to Jiu Jitsu, they get really good.
Speaker B:They start to become a good teacher.
Speaker B:They've learned how to become a good teacher in the gym that they came up in.
Speaker B:So now they want to leave and start their own gym.
Speaker B:And a lot of coaches view it as this is this.
Speaker B:They're trying to steal my business.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I think that, for me, I just looked at it differently, and I was like, well, most people that even want to start these schools have no idea how to run them, and they also don't have the money to invest in, you know, in building a school and knowing what to put in and what actually matters for being able to deliver.
Speaker B:And so, for me, it was like, I can start to basically buy schools and give people opportunity to coach.
Speaker B:And so, to me, it was more of like, trying to solve a problem and then going, okay, well, how could we now monetize this to be the best?
Speaker B:So it still, I would say organic is probably the politest word to use for it, but it was just very much like, oh, there's a new problem.
Speaker B:How do we solve that better or differently, honestly, than other people are?
Speaker B:Because no one was solving the problem of this, the coach, student breakup.
Speaker B:That's happening all over, you know, a ton of people.
Speaker B:And a lot of times it's because of money or it's because of, you know, something else.
Speaker B:And it just.
Speaker B:It just, most of the time, could be prevented.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, you said running a Jiu Jitsu school, martial arts academy, it's not the easiest thing in the world.
Speaker A:No, it's pretty.
Speaker A:Actually, it's pretty difficult.
Speaker A:You know, you and I, we talk about this all the time.
Speaker A:What do you think, in your opinion, what is.
Speaker A:I don't like to use the word struggle, but, you know, let's just say over the last year, what's been one of your biggest challenges in growing your business?
Speaker B:I mean, to me, the biggest problem with Jiu Jitsu in general right now is, is how many people are getting good and then starting their own schools.
Speaker B:For Jiu Jitsu business owners, obviously, this is a good thing.
Speaker B:So we went from I used to 10 years ago, when I started my school, I used to have to teach somebody what Jiu Jitsu was before they walked through the door, because why would they need to know this ancient art that they didn't know about?
Speaker B:Right now, it's totally different.
Speaker B:Anyone who walks through your door has listened to people talk about Jiu Jitsu on a podcast.
Speaker B:They have some idea of what Jiu Jitsu is.
Speaker B:So the market has totally changed, yet we all market the exact same product.
Speaker B:And for a.
Speaker B:You know, if in the car business, if you guys are all marketing like, hey, this is a car.
Speaker B:It has four wheels.
Speaker B:We can't tell you what kind it is, because we don't want to offend anybody by saying we're doing something different, Right?
Speaker B:And so that is where the Jiu Jitsu space is.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, that, to me, is like, how do you not only not market in a sense of paid ads, you can use a lot of fitness businesses to market Jiu Jitsu stuff and use the same language and be like, yeah, it's fitness.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And you can do that.
Speaker B:But how do you, with the right words, differentiate yourself from all the other things that are being sold that aren't the same product as you?
Speaker B:And that is, to me, the product.
Speaker B:The has been our focus for the last year, and, like, that has been the big problem to solve.
Speaker B:And I really think we're doing good with it.
Speaker A:You guys are knocking on the park, and you guys do such a great job online.
Speaker A:I have to stir the pot for.
Speaker A:With you for a minute.
Speaker A:I mean, you can't, like, just have a normal conversation without some shenanigans.
Speaker A:Are we good?
Speaker B:Can I just stir the pot, bro?
Speaker A:You're, like, you know, you're, like, campaigning.
Speaker A:You know, I see all over.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm not seeing with these politicians.
Speaker A:But you're campaigning for the world of Jiu Jitsu, trying to make American Jiu Jitsu great again.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So, I mean, is it.
Speaker A:Yeah, some people would say that Billion Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:Is it Jiu Jitsu?
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Is it American Jiu Jitsu?
Speaker A:Like, what are we doing here, Josh?
Speaker A:Are we creating a movement?
Speaker B:It's a great question, right?
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:There's no doubt.
Speaker B:You can't.
Speaker B:You can't create a movement without motion.
Speaker B:And so I think that we do have some motion, but I think that it's just this.
Speaker B:Okay, so there is this debate of should it be called Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or should it be called Jiu Jitsu?
Speaker B:And there was this debate, but before there was that debate, it was, should it be called the Gracie Jiu Jitsu or should it be called Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
Speaker B:Because the Gracies are the people who branded this artist and then sold it to the masses.
Speaker B:And there is no doubt, there is no argument of that.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so for me, I believe that there is a new progression for selling, for marketing what you have.
Speaker B:And for me, if you were to.
Speaker B:And, like, the best example that I could give is if you were to go to a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school, you would expect to have certain rules that you're going to be surprised to find out.
Speaker B:Like, you.
Speaker B:You have to tie your belt facing the wall.
Speaker B:You have to bow to a picture of somebody to start a class.
Speaker B:You have to bow before you go onto the mat.
Speaker B:Something that makes it feel like a traditional, you know, American karate dojo.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:And I think that these things are fine.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of people actually love that part of learning a martial art is the, you know, extra Asian culture stuff that we just threw on top of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for some reason.
Speaker B:And I think that a lot of people like that part.
Speaker B:And to me, it's like, let them go there.
Speaker B:But how does somebody who is brand new that obviously isn't going to enjoy that?
Speaker B:That isn't going to enjoy, like, anything other than, hey, we're here to learn and get better at Jiu Jitsu and have fun.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like anything other than that.
Speaker B:Some people just want that.
Speaker B:They just want to show up, train, get better, have fun, and leave.
Speaker B:They don't want it to be about the color of the GI that they wore that night.
Speaker B:They don't want it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They don't want to be about anything.
Speaker B:They just want to go and have fun and train Jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:And so that is why I decided to go into the American Jiu Jitsu place, go into the American Jiu Jitsu world.
Speaker B:And I did write the American Jiu Jitsu Declaration of Independence, and it's hanging up at my gym.
Speaker B:And so I don't want to just pretend like I just jumped in.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:One of my friends tried to convince me a year ago to join.
Speaker B:He's probably.
Speaker B:His name's Keenan Cornelius.
Speaker B:He's probably the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker B:The main pusher of American Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:And I got him on my podcast.
Speaker B:He pushed the propaganda on me, and he made so much sense.
Speaker B:And the main thing was, like, hey, why does my gym have to feel like a dojo?
Speaker B:Can't it just feel like.
Speaker B:Like a.
Speaker B:What do you say?
Speaker B:Like a. I'm trying to think like a country club where you train Jiu Jitsu, a country club where you learn Jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:And he's like, and if I did that, wouldn't I need to market it differently anyway?
Speaker B:He's like, because it's not what everyone else is doing.
Speaker B:And that really resonated with me, was like, man, for us, Jiu Jitsu is not about the traditional part.
Speaker B:It's not about that.
Speaker B:You're gaining ancient knowledge.
Speaker B:For a lot of people, it is about the community.
Speaker B:It's about showing up and seeing the same faces, right?
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:And it's like, it's even.
Speaker B:Like, even when there's a big tournament win or something, it's still about the community.
Speaker B:It was the fact that you and the team did it together.
Speaker B:And I just think that we can sell that as a product and market it as a product.
Speaker B:So much better with American Jiu Jitsu, because we have the freedom to innovate in America, because that is what America is about.
Speaker B:And it's like, I no longer have to answer to any type of fake organization that says, like, oh, well, you're not doing things right.
Speaker B:It's like, brother, I. I wrote the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker B:I think I'm going to get to make these rules.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've got some loyalty to Kyle and you and your dad and our group, and that's about it.
Speaker A:I don't do the politics.
Speaker A:Same thing you said.
Speaker A:We call our academy at Alton Elite.
Speaker A:It's your third home.
Speaker A:We've got our place of employment that some of us not always want to be at.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:We want to escape work, even our home, as much as we love our homes and we love our families and our kids and everything.
Speaker A:But sometimes we all need a break, right?
Speaker A:So we go to the Martial Arts Academy.
Speaker A:That's our third home.
Speaker A:It's a safe, friendly atmosphere where we're going to get a great workout and the relationships are incredible.
Speaker A:That's where our friends are, Right?
Speaker A:I was talking to somebody the other day.
Speaker A:He's like, all my friends are people that I train Jiu Jitsu with.
Speaker A:It's kind of what happens.
Speaker A:What would you tell somebody, Josh, somebody hearing this that's maybe in their early 20s, that I've always wanted to try Jiu Jitsu, but I've been a little bit insecure.
Speaker A:You know, maybe I'm not in shape.
Speaker A:I don't know if I'd fit in.
Speaker A:What would you say to that person?
Speaker B:Go to a place that has a advertised beginners program, because they will, no matter where.
Speaker B:Like, even if you are worried about, like, oh, it says Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:I mean, obviously you should do American Jiu Jitsu, and there's no doubt about it.
Speaker B:But Jiu Jitsu is Jiu Jitsu, and it can be this fun experience, and you find a place, ideally that is full of Fun, good people.
Speaker B:But I really think an actual beginner's class, if you are nervous about it, if you're a girl, an actual girls only class.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Something that really sounds like it is directly designed for you.
Speaker B:And it's hard because most Jiu Jitsu places have terrible marketing and so you don't actually know what they have to offer, but just kind of search through Google, try a few places.
Speaker B:Usually it'll be free trials.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I definitely think it's worth trying.
Speaker B:I think it's worth seeing if you enjoy.
Speaker A:It's life changing.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:This has been a fun conversation, Josh.
Speaker A:I could sit and talk Jiu Jitsu with you for another five hours, but I do want to ask you something.
Speaker A:I want to kind of land the plane on our conversation with this kind of a legacy conversation, you know, legacy talk.
Speaker A:So, like, what is the Josh McKinney want to be remembered for?
Speaker A:What's your legacy in the world of Jiu Jitsu?
Speaker A:What are you trying to leave to
Speaker B:all of us, man?
Speaker B:I think, you know, I.
Speaker B:If you had asked me a few years ago, it would be like, well, I want to win a world championship or something like that.
Speaker B:But honestly, as I've gotten, you know, when you're old as me, you'll understand this.
Speaker B:But as I've gotten old, my mindset has just shifted to, with the podcast, with the other things that I do, I realized that, like, my biggest gifting is being able to explain things in a way that is simple to people.
Speaker B:And I really think that that will be my biggest contribution to Jiu Jitsu is that for Americans, for people that speak English, to be the best explainer
Speaker A:of Jiu Jitsu, one thing too, and I'm going to have you share with you the one thing about Josh, you know, following Josh.
Speaker A:And I'm going to have Josh tell you where to follow.
Speaker A:But if you want to laugh, follow Josh.
Speaker A:If you want to laugh harder, follow Josh.
Speaker A:What I love about Josh is he's a dang good kid.
Speaker A:Sorry, I still call you a kid because you're just so much younger than me.
Speaker A:But you've always been that humble, respectful, hilarious young man that, like I said earlier, you've seen Josh, hopefully you've not seen the movie Friday where Deebo, you know, can take your bike.
Speaker A:I mean, Josh, you can take somebody's bike if you truly wanted to take their bike.
Speaker A:But you're just so darn funny in the process.
Speaker A:So how do people follow you?
Speaker A:How do people find you?
Speaker A:What are the best ways for people
Speaker B:to do that, man.
Speaker B:The best place to hear from me, follow me, is my actual podcast, the Iseka Jiu Jitsu Show.
Speaker B:We put out new episodes every Thursday, and they're always different.
Speaker B:Sometimes they're solo teaching you about Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:Sometimes they're Hot Takes.
Speaker B:That's everybody's favorite, where we just have people send in their hot takes and we discuss them.
Speaker B:We actually had the first time ever we recorded it's not out yet, but we recorded a Hot Takes episode that was live at a Jiu Jitsu tournament.
Speaker B:And so people were able to just walk up and give crazy hot takes.
Speaker B:But that's the main place to follow me then on Instagram.
Speaker B:I suck at Jiu Jitsu is our PO Podcast.
Speaker B:Instagram.
Speaker B:That's where most of our content is posted.
Speaker B:But I also have my own the Josh McKinney.
Speaker B:And yeah, those are.
Speaker B:That's pretty much the only places to follow me, but the main place is listening to the podcast.
Speaker B:That's where my real opinions are, and that's where, you know, I have total control to just say whatever I want.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So, well, Josh, I appreciate you spending some time.
Speaker A:It's always an honor and a privilege, and I look forward to seeing you on the matt.
Speaker A:Hopefully I'll see you next week when Kyle comes over, and I know I'll see you at your place real soon.
Speaker A:So for those that tuned in, thanks for watching and listening to another episode of Humans that Build.
Speaker A:This is my boy, Josh McKinney.
Speaker A:Let's go out to the world and let's make it a better place, y'.
Speaker A:All.
Speaker A:Humans that Build.
Speaker A:Real people, real work.
Speaker A:See you next time.
Speaker A:Sat.
